The Associated Worlds - random

The Associated Worlds

Offtopic / random

Irrelevant whatever.

and economic transition exacerbates it (edited)

11:24

Tron, you're young and presumably educated, you have a lot of advantages in that regard

Yeah, a lot of Democrats I know abstained from voting because Sanders lost the primary.

Welp, I guess I see logic.

Yep. She scared many off, he drew many other wise absentee voters to the polls

11:25

It's one of the reasons I find his campaigning impressive if confusing and annoying

11:27

who would have expected "we need to make them Pokemon go-to-the-polls" to not work as a line for getting the Left wing youth mobilized?

11:27

/s on the last one, btw

Completely unrelated to politics, but I've been kicking this idea around in my head for a while and wanted to see what you guys thought.

11:28

NASA wants to return samples from Mars 2020 (despite not having a plan on how to do it). As fellow space enthusiasts, what do you guys think the best approach is wrt unmanned Mars sample return?

Similar to the moon sample returns writ large, I'd think. Carry a small solid propellant rocket, maybe leave it at the lander, have it take a highly efficient trajectory home

Mars is a completely different animal, though. It takes much more Delta-V to get from Mars to Earth than from Luna to Earth (not to mention the extra Delta-V it takes to get into Mars orbit), and I don't think a solid-propelled rocket could actually reach Mars orbit and perform a transfer burn.

11:34

Not while keeping it light enough to actually land on Mars, that is

unless you want high-performance hypergolics, I don't see many other options

Cryogenics refueled on-site with an ISRU setup?

11:37

The actual ascent rocket should only have to worry about getting into low Mars orbit. An orbiter can always dock with it and transfer over the samples to do a transfer burn by itself. Any mass that you don't have to take down to the surface and/or lug out of Mars' gravity well, you should leave in orbit.

true, but are they planning on sending an orbiter? And at this point, I'd image they're more concerned with TWR, where solid rockets would win out

The most we can land on Mars with current tech and landing systems is a few tons. Don't think you could fit an orbit-capable rocket in that... I'm thinking you make the rocket two or three stage, land each stage separately, and assemble them on-site. That might complicate things too much, tho...

11:41

This isn't really about what NASA's planning, and more of a hypothetical mission (restricted to current and/or near-future technology)

ah, in that case, a small two stage ISRU fueled rocket to dock with an orbital transfer stage is feasible

11:47

Especially if we assume a bigger mission that's bringing along its own orbital infrastructure anyway

The American military's job should be to defend America. That's pretty much it. (edited)

It’s mostly the USN getting hurt, but the Army has had to cut a lot of high-end capability to maintain deployment readiness

13:00

In an ideal world, yeah

13:01

But ever since it has existed it has been an instrument of Congress and more recently the presidency to exercise their will around the world

How exactly are we not a peer threat to Russia and China? We have enough nukes to blow them (and the rest of the world along with them) to hell about a hundred times over

We’re down to only a few thousand relatively small nukes, and this is more of preventing a larger Crimea from occurring to an ally

13:03

7th fleet bolstering the JMSDF/ROKN is the most obvious example

sure would be nice if we could do diplomacy without the sticks

>"Relatively small" (edited)

13:03

>nuclear weapons (edited)

Yeah, they’re 10s of kilotons and smaller

uh, no, we still have plenty of megaton warheads

"relative" meaning "compared to hectomegaton stuff"

Dude, tens of kilotons is still enough to annihilate a city!

There's a difference between a "tactical" nuke and a "strategic" nuke.

Yes, but a few thousand of those is hardly enough to eliminate Russia or China “a hundred times over”, and I’m talking strategic

13:05

Most of our strategics are half megaton and below

i was exaggerating

13:05

a few thousand of them will annihilate all of their population centers and major military bases

The why defend the point?

Hyperbole does not become a solid argument.

sorry

13:06

but like

I assumed you were one of the “we can kill the world a thousand times over” type, and defending your point backed that

we can kill the world (just not 1,000 times over)

Eh, not really

13:07

Economically, maybe

we can probably scour it clean, but the planet'll still be there :V

Most of those warheads are tied up into mirved Ballistic missiles, we can only target them so widely

With as little as fifty nukes, nuclear winter would kill hundreds of millions (if you include secondary effects) (edited)

13:08

A modern ICBM can fly anywhere in the world

Newer studies show the effect was exaggerated

[citation needed]

13:09

could you provide a link to said studies? I'm basing my information off of sources Wikipedia cites

http://www.sgr.org.uk/resources/does-anybody-remember-nuclear-winter

13:11

This summarizes it well

13:12

Basically, large scale winter requires 3 figure numbers of major cities to firestorm, and to have persistent ash in the atmosphere, both of with are being challenged (edited)

this literally summarizes the negative consequences of nuclear winter

13:13

and it never says what you claim it does

Could you do something like explode a volcano open or something? :V

I know I’m digging

13:13

The final part was my point

You have yet to provide a source to back up your final point

its been 6 minutes

:V

13:15

"Altogether, nuclear winter would be an ecological disaster of a similar magnitude to the major extinctions of the past, such as that at the end of the Cretaceous period 65 million years ago when 75% of all species died out, including the non-avian dinosaurs. An added factor after a nuclear war would be radioactive contamination giving worldwide background radiation doses many times larger than has ever happened during 3 billion years of evolution."

13:15

yeah effect was exaggerated my ass

Which was Sagan speaking out of his ass, smart guy, not an expert on the topic

13:19

https://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/pubs/88spp.html

Nuclear winter: science and politics, by Brian Martin

Nuclear winter: science and politics, by Brian Martin, published in Science and Public Policy, 1988

13:19

Here we go

soooo...... are we just going to forget that volcanos have existed?

13:19

(also radiation isn't the Bid Deal of nuclear winter, it is about the shitton of dust)

I imagine it's more about radioactivity than radiation, considering that the latter is short-lived.

Also, the KT impactor is in the range of 100 teratons TNT equivalent, not exactly the gigatons of a full scale worst case scenario Cold War exchange

what's a few zeros?

Same difference, the amount of fallout is relatively minor outside of the immediate radius of the detonation, and most of it fades quickly

The KT impactor wasn't radioactive

Yeah, about 5

13:21

See above

the radioactivity doesn't do anything for the winter part of it

13:21

you need to keep your effects straight

And even better, since the really large exchanges would’ve been mostly thermonukes, which are exceptionally clean burning

(in general when the subject is nuclear anything and the direction is nukes==bad you need to double check everything. People are so freaking emotional on the subject that GIGO would be an improvement)

And the study usually cited is a worst case scenario using very pessimistic assumptions

GIGO?

garbage in garbage out

Okay.

clearly we should just turn all the nukes into shaped charges and abscond on a pulsating bicone of atomic fury

Casabas loose most of their efficiency in atmosphere

13:29

And they’re already not that efficient to begin with

They have very high Efficiency of Coolness

For space? Yeah, but Casaba Magsails or Excaliburs are more interesting

https://www.universetoday.com/141679/insights-rock-hammer-is-about-half-a-meter-down-and-has-already-run-into-rocks/ aww FUCK

InSight's Rock-hammer is About Half a Meter Down and has Already R...

InSight's Heat Probe has met some resistance as it hammers its way into the Martian sub-surface. It'll take a two-week break while they work on the problem.

yay rocks!

If it can't get past the rocks, it's stuck, @0111narwhalz

13:42

And it needs to be at least three meters down to collect accurate data

wait no rocks bad

13:42

boo rocks

Is its pull out game strong?

They could pick up and reposition the heat flow probe, but that would cause the cable to detach

clearly the solution is waiting for the lander to be covered by two and a half meters of dust

Which kinda defeats the point

13:45

@0111narwhalz it's solar-powered dingus

13:45

"If we had humans on Mars, this experiment would have been done the day after landing and rocks wouldn't have been a problem." -u/TechRepSir on Reddit

I mean, it makes sense that there'd be rocks in most places.

13:46

It's not like there's a thick layer of topsoil.

@KAL_9000 He's not wrong

Yeah, but they picked an area that was as flat and rock-thick as possible

13:46

@Ian Bruene never said he was

The problems isn’t rocks, it’s the weakness of the drill

Best case you find a sand pit.

13:46

Something that looks like a crater but is too shallow, perhaps.

13:48

other clear solution: drilling makes heat, so you just drill hard enough to melt a hole in the rock

yes, but they drill for a few hours at a time and then wait a few days for the probe to cool off so it doesn't overheat

13:50

the probe would overheat if they tried melting the rock

~~cooling off is for losers~~

I'm saying you make the rock overheat

13:50

if you can't take the heat get out of the LZ

1. Good luck getting it hot enough 2. Heat weakens your drill bit 3. Thermal management in space on a tiny probe is a pain 4. When the rock recongeals it might stick to your drill (edited)

The probe could drill heat conducting pipes into the ground and use the planet as a heat sink

(to clarify: any time I suggest a "clear solution" to something that makes the experts concerned, it should be taken as a joke)

Response to 3) Not so bad when you have an atmosphere around you

for certain creative definitions of "atmosphere"

It is when you don’t want to budget for radiators, and it’s basically a vacuum by earth standards

And a planet beneath you

third clear solution: add a fluid port and pump abrasive agents through the tip of the drill

mass budget

like an oil drill

That’s actually not stupid, but this thing is small

also mass :V

13:53

And the fluid would have to be

13:53

like

Like if we were going full Armageddon and shipping heavy equipment that’s actually a very practical solution

methane or ammonia or something :V

It’s pressurized anyway, I doubt that’ll be a problem

13:54

I’m actually not sure what drilling mud is made of

I assume it's either water or oil-based.

13:54

And liquid at room temperature/1 atmosphere.

Yeah, both of those are common, but I’m looking for specifics. And it’s actually quite viscous usually from what I can tell

"all that and more," according the the Wiki page

13:56

There are gaseous kinds, apparently

wrt the Mars sample return me and @MarcusAurelius were talking about, I crunched a few numbers

13:56

Looks like a three-stage design is the best

13:57

stages 1 and 2 are conventional (if smol) rocket stages

13:57

Stage 3 is an OMS pack with solar panels, antenna, guidance, and sample container

Phobos and Deimos are too small to help much, right?

yeah you're not gravity assisting off of them

13:58

Phobos Escape Velocity: 11.39 m/s

13:58

Deimos Escape Velocity: 5.56 m/s

What does the overall mass ratio end up looking like?

Not too bad, actually!

13:59

Stage 1 : Stage 2 is about 4:3

13:59

Stage 2 : Stage 3 is about 2:1 (edited)

And do you really need solar panels on the final article, or can you get away with batteries for less mass and complexity?

It helps that Mars has a thin atmosphere and is smaller than Earth

14:00

Depends on how long it takes the orbiter to show up

ah, so we're doing an orbiter IP tug

Nah, tugging the third stage back is mass you don't need to have

14:01

The orbiter retrieves the sample container and puts it in the return aeroshell

14:02

And brings that back to Earth

But what's the overall mass ratio of the whole vessel?

14:02

or mass fraction, I can never keep them straight

You mean whole vehicle : payload?

yes

14:02

(for values of payload including non-scaling stuff like avionics)

8:1

14:03

ish

14:04

The rocket'd weigh about 10 tons for 500kg of samples, but avionics and stuff is part of the payload

So if you want to bring a kilo of [samples+avionics] up you need eight kilos of flight article on the ground?

yeah

500kg is a gigantic amount of Mars rocks.

We did say a hypothetical optimal mission

14:04

About what an Apollo mission brought back from the Moon

I thought we were talking "bring back a handful of sand" :V

Obviously, this would cost many billions of $$$

14:05

Stage 3 and payload: ~1 ton

14:05

Stage 2: ~2 tons

14:06

Stage 1: ~5 tons

Consider this mission architecture:

not sure if a fairing/nosecone would be worth it

Orbiter is a bus of many land/return vessels.

Hard to tell with the thinness of the atmosphere

You drop one in each mission location.

Once they all return, the orbiter packs all the samples into a return aeroshell and returns to Earth?

This affords you maximal variation of samples, which is probably more valuable than a giant amount of one sample.

14:07

Yeah, potentially multiple smaller shells for redundancy.

see, there's one return rocket, but the samples are delivered via rover

14:08

So you can drive that rover around and get stuff from all over, not just the LZ

A rover which can travel how far?

Hey, if it doesn't stop for science, Curiosity can get up to 20 km/h

14:09

Assuming a similar rover, you could travel a long way on RTG power

Consider a landing pattern which samples both icecaps, equatorial regions, craters, highlands, lava tubes, all at once

14:09

And this architechture also leverages the benefits of redundancy.

Landing at biome edges in KSP intensifies

14:10

gtg

Rather than putting all 500kg of your eggs in one eight-ton basket, you put each egg in a separate basket.

14:10

Some of them will fail to return—but that's fine, because you have plenty others.

14:14

In addition, you may even be able to reuse certain parts of the top stage.

14:14

Or even the whole thing—just refuel it, since it's probably hypergolics.

14:16

The first and second stages are oneshot, and possibly solid anyway, so your only integration is the decoupler and the igniter.

14:16

(attitude control provided by the third stage's RCS)

Image attachment

a substantial amount of dak, I presume

megachonki boi

I wonder if there was considered to be something wrong with people who weren’t Xenophile ethics in ME

@0111narwhalz that would necessitate landing the top stage back on Mars. How can you save money/time/weight on that when you're limited to a non-reusable lander? (edited)

You’re over complicating this

08:34

What size mass sample do we need

08:35

If it’s like a thimble or something we can probably get away with a relatively minuscule return stage

AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

Then get your BFR, bring a backhoe and shovel Mars dirt inside

inb4 strapping giant thrusters to mars and crashing it into earth to get as many samples as possible

Perfect

@KAL_9000 The lander is non-reusable. The lifter, or at least its last stage, is.

yeah but you need to bring the stage back to mars

10:44

which would require a lander

…yes

10:44

of which the orbiter has several

okay

Anyways

12:48

So, the orbiter is a big thing, probably massing a few dozen tons

12:49

what sort of LV are you gonna use to get that to Mars?

not my problem

12:50

The thing can be sent up in chunks, though.

Maybe a Falcon Heavy to get it into orbit?

12:51

Definitely wanna use a VASIMR drive or sommat for interplanetary transfer, to get loads of delta-v

Because it has many small, identical payloads, each one can be sent up on a smallsat lifter, or all at once on a heavier rocket.

Dude, a Mars lander is not a smallsat in any way, shape, or form

That's because they try to do too much V:

12:53

The transfer/recovery bus is definitely not a smallsat.

12:53

But the droplifters?

12:54

With a 1kg sample each, the ascent half is about…10 kilos, maybe?

You need an aeroshell, supersonic parachute, retrorockets, fuel for said retrorockets, guidance computer, radar...

And it's not that hard to land a 10 kilo thing—square-cube law is in your favor here.

not to mention heat shield, landing legs, batteries/solar panels/RTG, whatever payload you're delivering to the surface...

okay so all of the avionics are in the top stage of the lifter, right?

yes

There's nothing in the drop half except

12:57

like

12:57

airbags

great, how are you going to survive reentry, or slow down enough for the airbags to become effective and not tear, etc.?

You know we've landed things without retrorockets, right?

On Mars?

Things that are heavier than 10 kilos.

Both Pathfinder and the MERs had retrorockets on the aeroshell that would slow them down.

13:00

"However, as the airbags were designed for no more than about 15 m/s vertical impacts, three solid retrorockets were mounted above the lander in the backshell." -Wikipedia on Pathfinder EDL

hm okay

13:01

well do that then V:

I don't think you can make a third stage weigh 10kg or less (edited)

13:02

especially with propellant and stuff

…I thought you were the one with the lifter idea.

Yeah, I said the upper stage would weigh about a ton

yeah so I scaled it down to carry a kilo of samples instead of five hundred

...rocket stages don't scale linearly beyond a certain point

13:05

Avionics alone weighs about 15 kilos on most spacecraft

These don't need redundancy, or hydraulics, or a lot of things.

with at most like 9 kilos of propellant, can you effectively perform an orbital insertion burn and assorted maneuvers?

if your payload is only one kilo, sure

13:07

That's a 9:1 mass ratio—plenty.

I've never seen a liquid-fueled rocket engine and its assorted plumbing that light

Why liquid-fueled?

13:09

PPT

...because it needs to make delicate orbital maneuvers that can't be done on a single burn? (edited)

PPT is an electric thermal rocket with a solid propellant.

13:11

No plumbing, no sloshing, no valves.

you wanted it to be reusable

13:11

you can't refuel a solid with hoses

Commonly used on cubesats for being cheap, reliable, and precise.

13:12

So you replace that part too.

13:12

The reusable part is just the part that merits reusing.

How many people usually come onto the server?

16:16

Please, surrounded by zombies in a village!

>> #minecraft

CMV: No New Fashions In The Future is an entirely justifiable trope

17:44

In the combination of the jeans, the sweatpants, and the tshirts and sneakers of today we have found the pinnacle of comfort and functionality in clothing

17:45

And barring some crazy nanomeme invention in the far future it will always remain that way.

Yes, those are possibly most functional, but people do not actually care (see: high heels).

do most women actually wear high heels

No, but stuff like that is still at least fashionable.

17:51

Oh, and even if people stick with basic functional clothing in shape, they'll still have different patterns and stuff to stand out.

Sorry, it looked like you used the terms "fashionable" and "functional" to mean the same thing

You know that literally every fashion cycle in history has said that, right?

18:05

“Mammoth skins best clothes. No better than mammoth, not never.” - Og the Unpantsed, circa 10,000 BCE (edited)

I get it but I can't imagine anything better than sweatpants for athleisure

18:09

or sneakers

18:09

Like we aren't going back to the days of men wearing heels for horseback riding

18:09

Or the days of the masses of factory workers in overalls

Men wore heels to show off their calves.

18:11

Back before that was deemed "effeminate".

I think the main evolutionary drivers of clothing aren't so much styles as new materials, and critically new fasteners

18:17

The invention of the button and close stitching as examples resulted in drastic changes to fashion on all levels.

18:18

If you want something interesting and futuristic, think how would clothing change per se, if someone came up with an easier method of closing fabric together than a button or a zipper

cough velcro cough

I am so annoyed at the lack of reasonably large Velcro shoes.

18:19

Laces are just annoying and inefficient.

It insults people's egos

18:20

Also something something tying your shoes

Velcro has downsides though, chief ones being that the plastic hook parts tend to destroy fabrics that aren't heavy duty

For a variety of reasons I didn't pick it up till 12, and I think there's some truth to the idea that you need clear milestones

18:20

to develop well

… like using more annoying shoes? why?

Velcro also has a lack of precision for closing. Unless you take care to join it right, you'll be a little tighter or looser. Mind you thats also a godsend for a lot of places where Velcro is used

I basically just want shoes which stay on my feet, without lace fiddling.

But even so, Velcro is a good example of how clothing does change when your basic fastner technology does!

There’s also the deliberate nonfunctionality issue.

18:43

Inasmuch as it is used as a statement to the effect of “I can dress like this because I don’t need to work and can afford special dressing minions. (Unlike you peasants.)”

See, the evolution of the toga.

18:55

I've seen an argument for bringing cloaks back into fashion, even though coats are more practical in most situations.

As a habitual cloak-wearer, I wish to dispute this.

I own a cloak, it is definitely more practical in some situations

I almost always wear jackets

18:56

Only ponchos as far as I can remember

/High fives Cerebrate

1

Although I might be willing to compromise on the Badass Longcoat, it pressed.

Personally for me cloaks look cool

NO CAPES

But I live in a hot climate

18:56

@Ian Bruene hey who let edna mode in here

My trenchcoat is warmer than my other waterproof coats, but it's harder to fit into the seat of a car and doesn't cover my head and more importantly my glasses.

Cloaks DO require practice, tbf

Please understand that I live in a weird country where the temprature never goes below 70F at night

Is Puerto Rico a separate country?

I mostly just wear a jumper, or if it's rainy (this is the UK, it is always rainy) a coat.

That dramatic flair 'vadar effect ' eeds the correct walking style. And the right fabric weight. Otherwise you wrap it around your ankles and faceplant

It isn’t but it kimd of is

18:58

I feel way more comfortable wearing less, not to TMI.

That's fair, it's common in humid areas

A tee and jeans feels quite hot at any rate

19:00

I think Western culture is a bit too attached to its modesty ideas for practicality

19:00

But I’m no naturist

I'm wearing jeans, a t-shirt, and a button-down flannel shirt indoors.

19:01

This morning I wore a winter coat on the drive to work

Yeah but you live near the Canadian border

19:01

That’s a whole other climatic ballgame

True

19:03

But it's been colder than normal this year.

19:03

Beginning of this week was sub-zero.

19:04

Last week it got to the forties (F).

colder?

19:04

Thanks climate change

Polar vortex

I know about it, isnt it something that happens yearly

No, last one was in 2014

At any rate latex may be great but it doesn't make good normal wearing

10:27

It's constricting and sweaty and doesn't even breathe

10:27

So that's out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFdx1Hs71iA

Hitchhiking the Galaxy

11:19

The Guide would be horribly outdated

Oregon just had a pediatric tetanus case

What?

Some six year old

15:14

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/08/701553920/unvaccinated-boy-6-spent-57-days-in-the-hospital-with-tetanus

Unvaccinated Boy, 6, Spent 57 Days In The Hospital With Tetanus

It was Oregon's first pediatric case in more than 30 years. "It was difficult to take care of him, to watch him suffer," says Judith Guzman-Cottrill, an infectious-disease specialist.

15:15

fuck antivaxxers

Mandatory vaccination should be A GO

actually don't you'll just make more kids for them to torture

15:16

his parents still haven't vaccinated him and the treatment cost 800,000 USD

When did the antivax epidemic start?

like jesus fuck they ought to be liable for something

15:17

@Unknown in the 2010s I think

15:17

2012

Andrew Wakefield published his fraudulent study in 1998

15:25

He was disbarred in 2010

It seems to have become a much larger movement these last few years though

But, people have been suspicious of vaccination for at least a century.

15:29

After the 1976 Swine Flu vaccination campaign people blamed the shot for Guillain–Barré syndrome

Forever.....antivax

Image attachment

Hm, according The the NIH vaccines can rarely cause it. So it seems more like an example of an edge cases being used to scare people rather than correlation of age like with autism

Can anybody join me on the minecraft server?

There's stronger evidence that a bad case of the flu is more likely to cause Guillain–Barré than the vaccine.

Oh I wouldn’t be surprised, I’m just saying it’s interesting that there’s a different origin for that antivax group than the modern one

Wakefield was flat-out making stuff up. He started out trying to sell thimerosal-free vaccines, then switched to conning people into paying him to lecture about the evils of vaccines.

Found some Flat-Earth parody memes

Image attachment

17:07

Image attachment

Flat... earth... discord?

Yeah come on. There’s definitely more than one

There's servers for everything

17:09

Unfortunately

I want to pretend there’s a line somewhere, but I’m not really sure

Primitivists.

They’d be amusingly hypocritical, but I’m talking the genuinely disturbing types of behavior

⁤

08:34

That is the Unicode invisible plus character.

08:34

I don't know what crazy person in the Consortium thought "hey, what we really need is an invisible plus character", but we have it.

⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤⁤

08:46

That's ~1000 of them

I assumed it was for some sort of testing purposes

Internal tokenization is my guess

What?

There’s a whole bunch of them. They’re for representing equations where the operator isn’t normally written.

08:51

Like in “2a + b”, you’d use “invisible times” between 2 and a to indicate that there’s an otherwise unrepresented multiplication operation there.

huh

ISTR invisible plus is mostly so you can write things like 2 1/2 and have them add up right if fed to a software calculator.

That kind of makes sense. Kind of.

Unicode has lots of new control characters to make the semantics of the text unambiguous even if it’s not visually apparent. Or if it might-or-might-not be, like the difference between “fraction slash” and regular slash.

Umbrella Corporation and Weyland-Yutani don’t exactly have the most sustainable business models https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfX3DOQ-yc

Terrible Writing Advice

MEGACORPORATIONS - Terrible Writing Advice

In which we learn that Evil Doesn't Pay is economic, as well as ethical wisdom.

10:13

(Also, please insert lengthy rant against video as a medium here.)

Contrary to popular belief.

10:30

And why hate video?

I can't ctrl+f, Youtube is awful, I have to listen at whatever pace and in whatever order they set, loads of them are effectively just infographics + spoken text crammed into that awful format.

and you HAVE to give it full attention, you can't skip between tasks

Yes, that too.

10:33

Theoretically you can just leave it playing and then do other stuff, but it's easy to be distracted.

Well, there are a few shareholders who take a “slash-and-burn” attitude towards their investments. But you rarely see them in fiction about “evil MegaCorps”

Okay? This always struck me as a weird criticism

10:37

You’re also generally meant to read books and comics and listen to podcasts from the start to finish

Podcasts have most of the same problems, too.

Multitasking is a bad idea anyway

I am generally doing something I consider my primary task, and reading interesting things on the internet as a secondary task

Yes, that. I alt-tab lots.

(Er, because I can read? Much faster than I can watch, specifically - so why are you making me spend 11 minutes to absorb information I could glark in one or two if you'd written the darn stuff down.)

Like if I have to wait a few minutes for something on my primary, instead of twiddling thumbs I'll read something.

Yeah from what I have read studies multitasking actually injures your performance

10:38

Like having to follow the pace the author intended isn’t a problem for me generally

That's switching between active tasks. Filling in waiting time doesn't count.

If you're trying to perform two tasks optimally, it does. If you're NOT trying to perform the second task optimally and you're using it as a useful filler during down time, it's more efficient than doing nothing

Okay, I don’t understand this need to ‘skip ahead’

10:39

But y’all do what you can

10:40

Like would you seriously read Chapter 86 of Attack On Titan before going to Chapter 1

also for me it's exceptionally hard to follow a video without having something to do with my hands/partially engaging my brain elsewhere (it's why I don't watch movies in cinema much any more) because without a certain level of 'white noise' I get distracted by everything.

(Don’t look it up btw)

That's a story. Those are in order.

10:40

Informational texts are kind of less so.

Nonfiction is different yes

(yay for dodgy neurochemistry)

Completely different beast

Also, fiction is for enjoying, Non-fiction is for efficient transfer of information.

actually, yes. If I was reading Chapter 1 and it wasn't really engaging me, I will ABSOLUTELY skip ahead and see if a future bit is more interesting. If it isn't, I'll stop consuming the media entirely.

I can’t relate

Reading research papers, you can usually skip to the conclusion

Anything that makes said transfer less efficient is bad, 'cause there's only so many hours in the day and days in the lifetime, and I, at least, have already triple-booked all of 'em.

I see

10:43

I’m just a mealbrained zoomer who likes being shown pretty moving pictures with the narration

Basically, it's opportunity cost.

Like I said, in informational videos and stuff, usually the moving pictures would be better off as static infographics.

Those extra nine-ten minutes a video costs over text are nine-ten minutes that could have been used doing something else.

different people engage with stuff in different ways, due to different brains. I know some people learn far better from video than anything else. Great! For me it's a terrible mismatch

I can't stand podcasts at all

10:48

No visual engagement so it's hard for me to follow

I tend to listen to podcasts while working, it’s a different track for me

Either the sound turns into white noise and I tune it out, or I get more engaged with it than the work

My visual and auditory processes act pretty independently.

11:01

Of course my data processing job is so dull that I need additional stimulation to keep from nodding off.

If my neighbours are going to be playing loud music and singing bad karaoke in the early hours of Monday morning, there are worse choices than Bohemian Rhapsody. Still annoying

Karaoke Bohemian Rhapsody? How do they manage to pull that off?

Asking the Important questions

Then again my perspective on climate may be distorted by the fact I live in an actual jungle

U+262D HAMMER AND SICKLE EMOJI ☭ because of course this exists.

Genius

16:55

I prase thee

If you have a Linux machine, you may note that there's a compose sequence for that character: Compose+CCCP

I did Ctrl+alt+u262d.

Compose+CCCP is so much easier to remember, though :V

18:25

There's supposed to be a sequence Compose+FU, but I can't get it to trigger.

U+202E is fun too but discord has no support.

huh, I can't seem to get that one to render

Clyde wants no part of that :V

18:29

let's try that again

18:30

nope

oh, it's a formatting character

18:30

right-to-left override

Yes, xkcd advertised it some years back.

Hm, it does something in the input box.

18:32

Must sanitize the input once you submit it.

Unfortunately.

If you really want to confuse people when reporting numbers, you can use ‱ :V

18:34

(though ‰ is more subtle)

!txet sdrawkcab em eviG

By the way, a friend of mine recently wrote a story about brain uploading and forking I thought some of you might be interested in https://www.datapacrat.com/IO.SYS.html

A rationalist, hard-SF, abstract horror short story.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190304134216.htm

Seven moral rules found all around the world: Is it good to cooper...

What is morality? And to what extent does it vary around the world? The theory of 'morality-as-cooperation' argues that morality consists of a collection of biological and cultural solutions to the problems of cooperation recurrent in human social life. These solutions or coo...

Well, those are prioritized differently in different societies

For instance, do you respect the property of others who aren't in your group? Are your social superiors more important than your family?

Still, having the form of a fitness function, even if the coefficients are as yet undetermined, is pretty nice.

fun facts

Image attachment

Meanwhile, fridge thought. Gravity wave detectors disproved aether with very spectacular confidence, and accidentally.

didn't we already disprove aether in the 1880s?

Yeah, but now we disproved it harder.

How much harder?

About $1.1 billion harder.

3

Neil Gaiman's gods are basically egregores with physical form, correct? https://vimeo.com/210821729

"Have you thought about what it means to be a god? It means you give up your mortal existence to become a meme: something that lives forever in people's minds, like the tune of a nursery rhyme. It means that everyone gets to re-create you in their own minds. You barely have your own identity any more. Instead, you're a thousand different aspects of what people need you to be. And everyone wants something different from you. Nothing is fixed, nothing is stable."

"give up your mortal existence to become a meme" sounds like what the internet is for

Explains Technical Boy at least.

https://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-targets-sls/

NASA budget proposal targets SLS - SpaceNews.com

The White House’s fiscal year 2020 budget request for NASA proposes to delay work on an upgraded version of the Space Launch System, among other changes.

10:40

OH LOOK NASA'S BUDGET GOT SLASHED AGAIN

10:40

Also: possibly RIP WFIRST

10:42

Budget reduced

Block 1B delayed indefinitely

EM-1 delayed to early 2020s

Lunar Gateway, Europa Clipper to launch on commercial rockets

Block 1B ~~delayed indefinitely~~ acknowledged that it was never going to fly

yeah true

@Ian Bruene and I met someone who used 'SLS will fly in 2018' as an argument against spaceX

12:40

wew

oof, right in the kisser

I have said before that I don't think NASA or Congress actually want SLS and it's just a pork/excuse program that they're trying to make the best of

2034, first SLS manned flight happens is delayed because the range is booked for SpaceX's sea dragon test

Oh damn...

12:49

That's harsh.

@Ian Bruene probably right

Sea Dragon gives me a happy thought.

dorfy

Urist McNarwhalz likes the Sea Dragon for its opfimism

Design question: Driver cabin on very wide cab-over designs.

Anyone else read Liking What You See? I thought it was a rather bonechilling example of mind editing becoming a perversity

(for values of "very wide" like "ten metres or so")

15:04

Does the driver cabin go the entire width, like a starship bridge?

15:04

Does it go on one corner and get only one side window?

15:05

Does it go in the center with no side windows, and rely on camera feeds or something?

15:05

Maybe it sticks out?

Schlock Mercenary humor is still excellent: https://www.schlockmercenary.com/strip/6848/0/schlock20190312.jpg?v=1552154007525

Embedded image

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/280

Potluck Economics

A philosophy webcomic about the inevitable anguish of living a brief life in an absurd world. Also Jokes

This is a very weird question, but there was a foot of steel pipe on the road and I picked it up because it was a hazard, but I can't just dump it on the verge because that risjs killing the person who mows the grass next, so... I am now responsible for this pipe. What the hell do I do with it?

sell it for the two tenths of a cent it's worth in scrap

No many scrapyards in the CBD. If I could just toss it in recycling, I would

Do you ever find yourself needing a poking stick?

I could ask in the minerals team has a scrap iron bin, it can sit at home for a day. If it sits longer it might get kept, is my concern

05:04

I have 2 superior poking sticks, one wood and one metal

Perhaps it can be the poking stick for mobile applications.

05:05

Wouldn't want to find yourself away from home with no way to poke thingsm after all.

A one foot pole is less practical to poke things than a 3ft pole, though.

05:07

It would work as a relay baton if I had friends and any motivations to run in circles

Have you considered the merits of a finger-longer?

/Tests if she can lift this with one finger

05:09

Hm. Index and middle finger barely can

ah, there you go

05:10

finger exercise stick

05:11

Do you have a particularly short table that needs a new leg?

05:11

Or something that needs propping?

Sadly no :(

hmm

At a foot long, it would make a decent sap.

Definitely, it's more than hefty enough

For elf'n'safety, apply bicycle grip to one end and pool noodle to the rest.

What exactly is a sap?

A device for rapping people you wish to be unconscious smartly over the back of the head with.

Something which works better when hefty, but not worse when surrounded by foam.

05:17

ah, I see

(The foam does worsen it, but mostly because if you don't foam it up, you stand a good chance of needing a sack of quicklime and a deep hole, which always spoils an otherwise fine evening.)

I tried looking it up, but there happens to be a company called SAP that floods the search results.

Try 'british' as a co term

Probably for the best.

Work has an ashifying furnace, faster than quicklime

2

hey look offices of SAP SE in Britain

05:22

The other results are dictionary sites, which talk mostly about treejuice.

05:25

Odd how apparently nonsearchable certain things can become.

05:25

I blame my search engine locale.

05:26

(though I did already set it to UK so it would stop reporting orbital distances in feet)

I have gifted it to my neighbour, who said it was 'cool' and promptly started using it as a pretend spyglass and making pirate jokes. I'm glad he's happy with his new pole.

...how old is this neighbor?

Never too old for a second childhood

@BizarroLand ♀ I was thinking about stuff recently, and you know when you said allow for introspection, imagination and probably also analysis of the outside world when I asked What does consciousness actually do, though? Maybe you would need some form of consciousness, whatever that is, for introspection, but you don't for "imagination" and "analysis of the outside world". You can do those with simple "AI" like we use for games.

Not too much. Most of the best AIs in games rely on decision trees to do what they do, and that limits them to a pretty specific set of variables they can react to

Simple decision trees are responding to/analyzing the outside world (well, game world), and I think some of the not-really-AI algorithms do an imagination-like thing of simulating various possible futures and picking the action which produces a lot of the better ones.

@MarcusAurelius I estimate neighbour is in his 20s

a bit young for a second childhood then

Nah, he’s just having fun

Work needs to get an accredited installer to install a thing, even we're sure we could do it. Fair enough, fuck it up and you could get a few hundred people killed. The fees being charged by the accredited installer are ludicrous though. So now work is talking with our usual contractor for that sort of thing, who is not accredited, and asking if they'd be willing to let us pay for them getting a half day training course to become accredited, and then charge their normal fees, because this seriously might be cheaper. Breaking monopolies for spite and profit >.>

@Morgrim Moon what are they installing?

Part of an emergency situation. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say more.

terrible idea #4902: number system with factorial radix

oh no

you mean like ones, then twos, then sixes, then twenty-fours, etc.?

yup

fuck

Image attachment

"you're going to be as late as the lamb sauce"

Probably motivate you to get there better than the Ru Paul version.

if it detects you getting pulled over for speeding it'll call you an idiot sandwich

RE: Boeing 737 Max Eight From what I understand, it's a software bug in the Autopilot, a fix was in the works, then the Pres needed his wall and shut down the government, halting work on the fix, leading to the death of eight American Citizens and ~150 other souls

How would the shutdown impact a private company?

the US Gov was funding the Fix

why?!

@Morgrim Moon Mostly, shutdowns screw up private companies either because they're government contractors (and so don't get paid), or because they're regulation-bound and all the regulators are away and not approving things. That latter's why you can't print any new beer labels during a shutdown, for example.

The US Gov was involved with the Fix in someway, not sure how

I hadn't heard that the govt. was funding the fix, but either way, it wouldn't have mattered - you can't deploy any changes to aircraft without the FAA's approval, and while the government's shut down, the FAA ain't approving anything.

19:48

If this seems mindbogglingly stupid to you, all I can do is to remind you that it's the US government.

huh

19:49

here, the air regulators (can't remember the name offhand) may have been able to say "we won't give our stamp of approval until the funding is back on", but they wouldn't have been able to restrict fixing everyone else and would actively encourage it

19:49

but then, here if the government deadlocks for 2 weeks every single politician is automatically sacked

It would seem that tensegrity structures are much more rigid when prestressed to higher tensions.

01:24

Which makes sense, really :V

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-king-in-the-long-night-asoiaf-got-stellaris-uplift-project.578392/

The King in the Long Night [ASoIaF/GOT][Stellaris] uplift project

Varys didn’t know the name of the street urchin who had first found it. Normally, such a thing would lead to suspicion – that this was a trap, or a...

The correct response to being told women are weaker is, apparently "tell the male intern off for sexism", not "offer to benchpress the scrawny intern". (not me, just witnessed it)

@Morgrim Moon is there any truth to the idea or is it an actual just a meme

As in, could the woman who said that have lifted the intern? I think she had a reasonable chance of pulling it off

07:07

It was a conversation between 4 people that I witnessed happening in my workplace this afternoon. I think intern was attempting to make a joke. He failed, obviously, but I do not think the goal was malicious

The idea that women in general are much weaker

07:11

It’s an idea I keep running into

It's more that the bell curve for women is tighter than men. Men at the higher end of strength tend to be MUCH higher, a woman has to work harder comparatively to build very high levels of strength. So if you take the average trained athlete man vs average trained athlete woman, he'll tend to be stronger. If you take the average woman on the street vs the average man on the street, it's even or slanted towards the woman being stronger, because on average women are fitter and when women become unfit, they're more likely to become unfit in ways that don't impact strength as strongly. (Like putting weight on around the hips vs around the waist.)

07:16

It's speculated that while in the past the average man on the street would be stronger, that's because manual labour used to be the norm for men; these days most men have more sedentary jobs while household labour still has a significant manual labour component and women do the lion's share of it; basically more women actually do active things.

I saw a video once where the 'world's strongest woman' lost armwrestling against some randos

07:20

... But most of them were putting their entire weight into it

there's some truth to the statement that men tend to be better at upper body strength and women are better at lower body. Again, lots of individual variation, but any contest that is JUST one is going have a base weighting to it

as in leaning so far off the table that it was basically cheatin (edited)

In theory and in humans, the male bell curve is shifted to the right relative to the female bell curve due to the effect of testosterone levels on muscle development.

07:24

In actual practice, much like most of these statistics, the two bell curves overlap a fair bit, it's far from the only thing that affects muscle development, and direct contests of raw strength are rare and artificial enough that anyone who tries to rely on this quirk of biology to throw their weight around is just beggin' to get his ass handed to him.

I've found that in practice most people don't do much lifting of things, to the point that does any reasonable amount of training > any biological factors if the person doesn't train

07:26

I am a scrawny stick with terrible upper body strength and liagment issues. I can still lift and hoist more than the vast majority of programmers I know, simply BECAUSE my job involves hoisting 5-15kg containers of water samples throughout the work day

(Or, as they say in-'verse, "Two sophs meet to fight. Which one wins? The one who brought a clockbow.")

1

07:27

(Also told as "The one who brought friends," depending on the moral one's trying to convey. In practice, anyone there expecting to meet a fight on the road will bring several friends, and all of them will be carrying clockbows.

)

1

Well I curl about 40kg regularly

07:27

'regularly' = 'when i go to the myg'

"This is too heavy" "Ask Morgrim to move it" "She can lift it?!" "She knows where the scissor lift is"

We are, after all, tool users.

Exactly. Work smarter

That said, my advantage in strength over the programmers involved UPSs and the need to regularly swap their lead-acid batteries. And I don't mean the small desktop ones.

07:31

Not something they usually mention in the sysadmin job description.

the car battery sized ones?

The equivalent of a couple of those in a 19" rackmount case. About 110 lbs all-in.

07:35

Those weren't even the biggest UPSes, but the ones with the big freestanding batteries the supplier came out to change themselves. With a forklift.

So yeah, you could lift me I strongly suspect, I don't weigh much more than that

I'm probably about fifteen years too old for that now.

07:38

The guys who did the latter had some interesting stories to tell. Often involving customers who hadn't thought about the weight limits of their "datacenter" floor. I gather they regularly got to spend site visits explaining to customers that their office needed MOAR STRUTS.

makes sense; people think about it holding the weight of the servers, but not the weight of the equipment to service the servers

07:39

granted, I bet there have been a few that also underestimated the weight of a full set of racks, with amusing/tragic results

Oh, yeah. Or, most commonly, underestimated the HVAC load because, hey, they're just computers, they can't put out that much heat, right?

My ex used to use his high end rig as a heater in winter

... which in at least one case I know of meant having to explain their lack of forethought to a couple of engines' worth of angry firemen. Oops.

It's hard to imagine people who've presumably had a laptop on their lap not realising it gets hot, but many people are idiots

(And then replace most of the hardware, 'cause servers don't much like it when the hardware closet gets over sixty C.)

One of my friends worked for a large gaming company who explained why their servers were down with a photo of the server farm physically on fire. They got a lot less customer complaints after that. (It wasn't their racks that started it)

Ouch!

I think that one was an electrical fault, though?

Probably. They're usually good at tripping before they actually burst into flames, thankfully.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/15954f0ed1f757fffd524d59a0755fa7/tumblr_o57qwxcfxJ1tlb56zo1_400.gif Science!

Embedded image

07:49

also topical: [20:45] <+ari> You know what, I think I might have to talk to the new guy in our team who, while I was on vacation, managed to generate a sequence of seven commits of the form "Merge branch 'master' into <featurebranch>" (for the same value of featurebranch in each case, too) [20:45] <@Morgrim> XD [20:46] <+ari> I mean, I appreciate honesty in the commit history, but there's a difference between being honest and not knowing what you're doing

That wasn't 40 mentos! You can clearly see some of the mentos fall to the side so the test is invalid.

07:53

We need to run it a few more times.

a paper funnel should solve that problem

Thing about testosterone is that it makes it easier to build muscle, someone who takes steroids isn’t going to get “swole” just veging out on the couch.

I think it accelerates the regeneration of the micro-tears that exercise produces.

huh, haven't heard that one before

My mom is a nurse, she might know. If she doesn’t, I can always read her Med textbooks (if she still has them

)

Or use the I N T E R N E T, which probably has some information on it.

Well, exercise builds muscle by tearing gaps in them for new muscle cells to grow in. Which is why you alternate "arm day" and "leg day"

https://www.quora.com/How-does-testosterone-help-in-building-muscles I'm currently fact checking this

How does testosterone help in building muscles? - Quora

Get your notebook out… Testosterone binds to receptors on the surface of muscle cells and amplify the biochemical signals in muscle tissue that result in protein synthesis. With more repairs needed (caused by lifting heavy weights), more testoster...

or ‘backpack day’ and ‘grocery cart day’ (edited)

11:42

Do you actually have a Quora account?

I'm finding similar information quite consistantly, but not really from the sort of sites I'd trust deeply; I can't confirm they're not parroting each other

11:48

and I'm not breaking out my textbooks after midnight. Not sure if it'd be IN my animal anatomy ones

And I do not currently have access to either of the possible sources which I listed.

what did you mean by the quora account comment?

Simply that I noticed the site you referred to is Quora, and I myself have a Quora account.

Ah. No, I don't, but of my quick research the Quora answer had what the other sites had in the most suscinct form, with the bonus that most people know to take Quora with a pinch of salt and so my half complete fact checking is less likely to mislead people into thinking "oh this is definitely true"

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/01/youth-climate-change-strikers-open-letter-to-world-leaders

Climate crisis and a betrayed generation

Letters: Activists behind recent youth-led climate protests say their views are being ignored in the debate about global warming

14:10

BREAKING NEWS: WE'RE NOT FUCKED AFTER ALL

14:12

https://twitter.com/hashtag/ClimateStrike?src=tren&data_id=tweet%3A1106568070276022273

#ClimateStrike hashtag on Twitter

4h ago @TwitterMoments tweeted: "Students from around the world have take.." - read what others are saying and join the conversation.

14:12

I AM SO PROUD OF MY GENERATION

what the hell is wrong with that website

what

I scroll down but the middle scrolls at a different rate

14:13

oh it stopped

14:14

It was like vertical screen-tearing except way worse.

It's Twitter. What isn't wrong with it?

nah, not that one

14:15

the news site

Whenever I try to visit a tweet on my phone, it just completely refuses to work.

I didn't even click the Twitter link V:

Possibly because I am one of the few users to have third party cookies turned off.

ObHeresy: There's nothing at all wrong with Twitter.

ah, well the average news site's design is the best evidence we have that the Lizard People are trying to drive humanity insane with broken webbery.

For every technique for making pages faster, like CDNs and inlining CSS and whatever, we get ten megabytes of random ad cruft.

downloads the page and reads the bare HTML

14:18

winning

uses lynx

14:18

arguably losing, since everything requires JS now

uses cat

I'm sure you can use some sort of HTTP FUSE filesystem to make that somehow work.

If it's a news site, the only thing you care about is the text anyway.

But then everyone will use vi instead.

14:19

You could try some sort of RSS reader.

14:19

RSS feeds are usually less bad, if they even have them.

also I just opened the inspector on the news site to see if reading the bare HTML is even feasable

I doubt it...

and the console has 1. an ad for how they're hiring web developers and 2. a stream of errors

"If you're reading this, join our team to fix this awful mess PLEASE HELP US"

14:21

Are they trying to run JS from a base64 data URL?!

screw you guys, I stick the ethernet cable in my mouth and follow the pattern of the tingling

I find that it's easier to just connect LEDs and switches to the various wires.

14:21

Hmm. There's a maincontent div but it appears to be empty.

checks out

The actual text looks to be in l-side-margins?

how I find where things are:

... inside another four divs.

delete elements until the one I want disappears

@gollark Is that an actual quote? I wouldn't be surprised.

Looks like you can use the selector .content__article-body > p to get the content... yay?

oh, it's in a pile of <p> thingies

Which is technically correct, <p> meaning paragraph and all.

ah, is that what it means

...

people thinking not going to school will make climate stop changing (edited)

The idea is to go around getting politicians to care slightly more about (appearing to) do something about climate change.

I keep hearing about this new animated sci-fi/fantasy anthology series on Netflix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUFwunMKa4E&feature=youtu.be

LOVE DEATH + ROBOTS | Official Trailer [HD] | Netflix

The problem I have with that climate protest is that I can’t decide which cynical take to run with.

00:29

The “how convenient that being all ethicaceous just happens to mean taking a day off; in my day we had to call in lazy” one -

00:33

- or the, “ah, democracy, in which performative whining serves as an a adequate substitute for taking action” one. At least so far as signaling and dopamine self-stimulation are concerned.

?Por que no los dos?

Oh, both are true, but it’s easier to trail bait one at a time.

There's not much else a group of underage kids CAN do, though. Without income there isn't much direct action that can be taken to improve things.

they definitely can't buy politicians on their allowance

1

1

1

I dunno...politicians can come surprisingly inexpensively.

@Morgrim Moon Politician's Syllogism. (edited)

I don't like it when that is used as a "so you shouldn't do anything" argument, though. Not doing anything isn't an option. Okay. You're saying protest is a poor option. Valid. Question then becomes, what option should the kids be taking? I suspect if they were given a better option they'd be doing that, but I also don't blame them for not having come up with one if I'm also struggling to come up with one

Not doing anything certainly is an option, like any other, and if you can't do anything useful, nothing is precisely what you should do.

Well yes, you can stand there and let someone shoot you, but that's a worse option than bumrushing the shooter even if bumrushing the shooter is also a terrible not recommended option

Well, that's a bad example. The former has a very high p(death), and while the latter probably also has a very high p(death), it's guaranteed to be lower than the former one, making it the preferred option. But, for example, consider the situation where you are stuck in a lift with another person, and your option set looks like (a) do nothing until rescued, or (b) complain endlessly about being stuck in a lift until rescued.

02:02

Both your own mental state and the other person's are likely to be improved by choosing option (a).

or as to the original topic, by not spending time going out to and preparing for a protest, they can go to school and get an education that will allow them to have influence on policy in the future

(I considered making the argument that a day's worth of education is almost certain to be, on net, more valuable in preventing climate change that raising awareness of what everyone's already aware of and/or making politicians aware of what their expensive pollsters already know; but given the state of the education system, I didn't think I could pull it off with a straight face,)

I would, if only because most high end job givers agree that it does

I'll agree on the elevator example. But large chunks of Australia are set to because uninhabitable by humans if there is more than a 2C warming, so stopping that happening is important to aussies wanting to stay alive. Yet politicians want more coal power plants, possibly because they'll be dead before the long term impacts hit THEM.

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